Star Wars - Ralphmorse.com

The Robert Williams Interviews

Star Wars

Held in the grounds of Colchester Castle - 22nd June 2007 and 26th February 2011

My name is Robert Williams, I am a journalist and broadcaster. In June 2007 I interviewed Dr Ralph Morse, his professional associates, colleagues, friends and family, and am honoured to contribute to this website. In February 2011, I undertook a second interview with Ralph, the subject matter this time was quite specific. This page is entirely dedicated to the one area of Ralph's career that has consistently generated the most interest.

Star Wars Episodes V and VI

May the Morse be with you !

Interview One - 22nd July 2007

(The following forms only a small part of a longer interview covering the whole of Ralph's life and career)

Williams: How did you become a stormtrooper?

Morse: Well I had been put up by an agent for a role as a desk officer in a new film entitled "The Empire Strikes Back" and arrived at Elstree film studios expecting to read for a small part in a film about India.

Williams: You mean you didn't know that this was a Star Wars movie?

Morse: Had no idea. Finding leading roles are of course undertaken by casting directors, but often smaller parts are cast further down the chain, especially if additional scenes are written during the shoot. I guess my picture was seen in "The Spotlight" and my agent got a call.

Williams: So you would have been cast because your face was right for the role?

Morse: Well I am speculating, and may still have had to read, but when you only have a couple of lines in an action movie I do not suppose they are particularly interested that you are preparing to play King Lear.

Williams: Point taken. So you came to audition for this small part but how did you end up as a stormtrooper?

Morse: Well while I was waiting, an assistant appeared and explained that a cast member had gone down with a long-term illness; as I was there I was then asked if I was interested in being a stormtrooper and be ready to start immediately. So that was it.

Williams: And you started filming when?

Morse: Same day. Went to wardrobe was given a costume, strapped into it and straight onto set. We were then asked to half-run down this corridor and I promptly made a complete fool of myself.

Williams: How?

Morse: Well I couldn't see, my three companions moved quite competently while I was staggering about like a drunk. I couldn't see properly. The helmet they had given me was faulty; the material in the eye-holes was crinkled. I think it was the same type of gel they use in stage lights and it had become crinkled so it was like looking through a bathroom window. Fortunately they gave me a new helmet and I was all right after that. It was an experience

Note: At this point discussions on Star Wars concluded and the interview moved on to a different aspect of Ralph's career. While it is but one chapter in his life, I knew there was a great deal more to tell, so I was delighted to have the opportunity to the revisit the subject, and this time at some length.

Rob Williams

The following is quite a long interview, so we have broken up the narrative with a few photographs. Hope you find it engaging.

Interview Two - 26th February 2011

Williams: I last interviewed you, Ralph, on the subject of "Star Wars" some three and a half years ago. You were careful then not to give too much away. Why was that?

Morse: Well, while I had a very enjoyable time making the films, my roles were comparatively minor so I wasn't sure that I could bring anything new to the subject. Also when you are talking about other people, as you invariably are, you need to be circumspect in what you do say. If I am going to answer a question, I need to do so fully and we really didn't have the time then.... (Laughs) ... Also I felt that attaching my face to the imperial stormtrooper was probably not going to do much for the iconic image. It's part of the enigma and I remember on "The Empire Strikes Back" the ethos was one of a "closed set" ...

Williams: ... Sorry to interrupt, but what do you mean by a closed set?

Morse: Basically to maintain the secrecy and mystique a production company restricts the number of people with access to the set during filming process and discourages the cast and crew from giving interviews to the media. In a film like Star Wars seeing actors without their character heads also rather destroys the illusion. A friend of mine was involved with "Alien" and that was also most definitely a "closed set".

Williams I remember reading that even the script was secret.

Morse: That's true. We know now that a pivotal moment in movie history occurs when Darth Vader tells Luke Skywalker that he is his father. I believe it was felt necessary to keep that secret even from the cast. Quite a lot has been written about this elsewhere; I don't think it requires any more comment from me.

Williams: I see. So what has changed your mind, so that you are prepared to discuss your part in the films in more depth?

Morse: The fans have. They are genuinely interested in all the people who were involved in the making of Star Wars.

The stormtrooper features prominently in the poster

Williams: O.k. To avoid confusion, Ralph, I'd like to primarily centre this interview on the Empire Strikes Back, if that's okay with you...

Morse: ... Alright ...

Williams: ... but may ask you some questions about "The Return of the Jedi" towards the end.

Morse: You're the one asking the questions, Rob.

Williams: Fine. I was reading the transcript of the very intriguing interview you gave recently to the Last Stormtrooper Detachment. I'll try and avoid, if I can, covering the same area, but I do have one question for you relative to that ... What was it like being interviewed by stormtrooper re-creators?

Register and read the interview with the Last Stormtrooper Detachment here

Morse: Quite flattering, actually. Mark, my interviewer was very focussed on what it meant physically to be a stormtrooper. He was interested in the components of the costume and the effects of wearing it during filming. These guys are very thorough in their research and are determined to get as close as they can to the originals in their reconstructions.

Williams: Because they wear them?

Morse: Precisely, and attend conventions and raise money for charity and other good causes while doing so.

Williams: Do you have a costume hanging in your wardrobe?

Morse: No, only Johnny Cashbox's stage gear.

Williams: When we last talked you spoke about your first experience with the stormtrooper helmet. I understand that quite amused the stunt coordinator Peter Diamond who already knew you?

Dick Turpin - General Publicity Still

Morse: He was the stunt coordinator on the television series "Dick Turpin" starring Richard O' Sullivan and I met him during the filming of an episode entiled "The Upright Man"

Williams: During which you committed a faux pas?

Morse: You could say that. We were filming at an old coach house somewhere in Hertfordshire . Once I was costumed as a blackguard, I wandered onto the set as asked Charles Crichton the director where he wanted me. The assistant director instructed me that I was to fall down the small circular staircase. I remember thinking it was an odd request but who was I to argue? After the third attempt it dawned on everyone that I was not the stuntman they had been expecting. I could have been in trouble but Peter Diamond appeared and smoothed things over in a very professional manner and even let me watch some stunts being set up.

Williams: Could you just do that, walk on to the set, without them recognising you?

Morse: It was my own fault really, as I had a habit of being where I was not supposed to be. I had not learned to accept at that stage in my career that much of the time on film is spent waiting. To be fair I was called for that scene, I was in costume, dirtied up with make-up accordingly and was restless to do something. The director and cameraman were quite busy with setting up a shot and the assistant was expecting a stuntman. In costume with half my face blackened I don't suppose the assistant really got a good look at me.

Williams: ... I can see why Peter Diamond was amused.

Morse: Well he was a RADA trained actor himself before becoming a stuntman and therefore could see things from several different perspectives. He was a real gentleman to everyone and is sadly missed.

Williams: Indeed. So you were a rebel soldier and imperial officer on the Empire Strikes Back in addition to being a stormtrooper. This wasn't another case of mistaken identity was it?

Morse: (Laughs) No. As supporting artists you were put in a sequence where and when they needed you. Actors playing stormtroopers or any other masked characters were useful in the bigger crowd scenes because their faces were not seen.

Williams: Is it true you got to fight with yourself?

Morse: I believe I did, though I'm not entirely sure how. You see, I remember filming one sequence as a stormtrooper entering Hoth with Darth Vader, and another as a rebel soldier fleeing Hoth. In the final movie, it is the snowtroopers who appear with Darth Vader, yet I have no memory of wearing that particular costume ... it was thirty-two years ago.

Ralph Morse as Corporal Derdram

Williams: Well there is one scene in which there is no doubt. It's the one in which the Millennium Falcon attacks Darth Vader's command ship. You are identifiable in the foreground. What are your memories of the filming?

Morse: Irvin Kershner, or Kersh as he was known, was having some minor problems with that scene. I was a little too high in frame and spoiling the mise-en-scene; the overall look of the shot. I remember suggesting to him that if I bent my knees a little it might lower me sufficiently to get the frame right. Given that he was carrying weight of the picture, he not only graciously listened to me but thought that it was a sound idea and that was how we filmed it.

Ralph Morse as an Imperial Stormtrooper in the Carbon Chamber Sequence

Williams: You were also involved with the filming of the carbon chamber?

Morse: Yes. It was quite an unnerving experience and more than a little uncomfortable. Just to get on the set was a mountaineering expedition. Some members of the crew quite literally lifted me on to it as I was having difficulty climbing. The lighting and gas effects added a fantastic atmosphere to the film, but were quite nauseating; we were all ridiculously hot and breathing was none too easy. We even stopped filming for some time just so we could recover. If I remember correctly one of the stormtroopers, who was not a stuntman, actually fell off part of it. The boots were not a lot of help as they had no proper tread and parts of the floor and the steps were decidedly dodgy so I could easily have followed him. Fortunately I didn't have quite as much moving about to do as the principal actors and the stuntmen and all credit to them because the end result is wonderful.

Williams: Listening to you, I get the feeling you still enjoyed it.

Morse: Actually, to be perfectly honest, I did. It was certainly an experience and I'm glad to have been part of it.

Unmasked, Ralph Morse Stormtrooper

Williams: You appear in the photograph on the steps; do you remember it being taken?

Morse: I have a vague recollection that Irvin Kershner took that picture himself. A lot of things happen on set between takes; cameramen recording lighting readings, continuity pictures being taken, technical business etc., but I'm pretty sure we weren't posed for that shot. There is also another picture that as far as I know has never been published. It features four stormtroopers, of which I am one, with playing cards, half-sitting, with Mark Hamill standing. I would dearly love to see it.

Williams: Did Irvin Kershner that that one too?

Morse: No. No, it was definitely a member of the crew, because he ...(laughs) ... kind of snuck up on us.

Williams: So, let's recap. You were a stormtrooper, a communications officer in the pit and a rebel soldier. So presumably you got to know the principal cast quite well?

Morse: Not as well as you might expect. Leading actors have a lot more pressure and things to deal with during the course of a shoot than the supporting artists do. Going through script changes, getting their character focussued for certain sequences, discussions with the director, rehearsals, costume, hair, make-up and other business etc.

Williams: Doesn't a stand-in do some of that?

Morse: To a small degree, yes. They are certainly used for lighting set -up purposes and for some of the blocking of scenes. For obvious reasons the stand-in is generally of the same height and build as the actor, though even that is not always possible. Peter Mayhew, Chewbacca being one example.

Williams: You mean his height?

Morse: Precisely. I think it was on my first day, actually, that I watched a set-up. There was a very tall man standing on a box. He was six foot six I believe. But that still left him around nine inches or so shorter than Peter.

Williams: That is tall. But back to my original question: I don't believe that you have no little snippets you can share with us. Let's begin with Darth Vader. You obviously spent some time with Dave Prowse. Yes?

Morse: Yes. .. We didn't speak much on set ... (Laughs) ... Hard when you're both wearing helmets ... I do remember having a fascinating conversation with David Prowse outside one of the rear studio doors. Another stormtrooper and I were waiting to be called back on set and ventured outside for a breather. Shortly after we were joined by David who had probably come out for the same reason... However uncomfortable he may or may not have been with certain aspects of filming, (and this did not publicly surface until much later), with us he was always warm, friendly and good-hearted. I remember we had a brief exchange about some business on set and then he told us about how he had trained Christopher Reeve for his role as Superman. Although he would like to have played the role himself, he took great pride in the contribution he made to the physique of the actor who eventually did. Later on he extended a very generous invitation to train me at his gym; unfortunately due to other commitments I was never able to take him up on it.

Williams: Is it true that between the Empire and Return of the Jedi you worked together on Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy for the BBC?

Morse: Yes, we did. I'd played the "Young Smartarse" in Episode 2 ...

Ralph Morse (Private Collection) Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy

Williams: (Looking at photograph)... Looks like it was filmed in a submarine or somewhere ...

Morse: It was actually at the Guinness factory in Park Royal. Anyway I was invited to don a rubber head and appear in the last episode "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe" David also appeared as a bodyguard. At one point I was chatting to this very attractive lady, (I had obviously removed my rubber head of course), she seemed very interested in Star Wars, when I heard a distinctive west country voice behind me; turned out the lady in question was Darth Vader's wife! We all had a laugh over that.

Williams: Did you ever try to chat up Princess Leia?

A Princess at his feet?

Taken between set-ups on the steps of Cloud City

Morse: No ... I'd have had Han Solo to answer to ... and the Wookie!

Williams: Just ... checking. Seriously, what were your impressions of Carrie Fisher, Harrison Ford and Mark Hamill?

Morse: Well, as I said earlier, we didn't really have a lot of personal contact. They were very busy people, so I didn't feel I could just wander up to them and start a conversation. I did on occasions exchange pleasantries with Carrie and Harrison and they were always quite friendly and professional even when I suspect they had quite a lot on their minds. The shooting schedule meant that I did have an opportunity to have a couple of brief conversations with Mark during which he was quite relaxed and amusing. What I must say is that they each did fantastic jobs as actors in those movies, because there were some great artistic challenges.

Williams: Really? ... What were they ... these challenges?

Morse: To maintain the integrity of their characters throughout the film and ensure that their role as actors didn't become subservient to everything else.

Williams: Is that not a challenge in any film?

Morse: To a degree, but when speaking about Star Wars it is often the special effects, the models, the costumes that people focus on. People talk about the characters from a narrative perspective but not generally about the acting that underpins it. At the time of my life when those films were made I was also involved in quite a lot of theatre work. Although not all stage plays are linear the vast majority are. That is to say you watch a character progress through a series of chronological events toward some kind of dramatic denouement. The actor has continuity; to develop the role through rehearsal and technique to create a believable person in front of the audience. The audience suspend their disbelief and enter into a world in which they experience empathy with the drama as it unfolds before them.

Film acting is different. Often you shoot just one line, or even just a reaction at a time. You shoot outside the chronological sequence. You film the denouement, (the big final scene), on a Thursday. Two weeks later, at an entirely different location, you film the sequence where the two central characters first meet. This is incredibly demanding for an actor and takes a great deal of skill and talent. But in Star Wars you are doing this and more! You also have to imagine that inside that green screen is an invading fleet of starfighters or the puppet you are talking to is the greatest Jedi master. Often you are talking to a masked character whose dialogue is either indistinct, non-existent or will ultimately be entirely different from what appears in the completed movie. Then there are the re-writes to contend with.

These are real challenges for the actor when you are at all times attempting to create a character that has depth and is consistently believable throughout. If you really think about it, they each turned in some pretty amazing performances.

Williams: You are absolutely right of course, Ralph; most of us, sit back and enjoy the spectacle of Star Wars without thinking too much about how the actor prepared for a scene. You spoke about empathy in the theatre, but surely you are not denying the power of cinema to create it?

Morse: No, quite the contrary. The point I am making is that in the theatre the actor and the audience are united in the moment of creation. Once a film has been edited and presented to a cinema audience, it has enormous power to create empathy, "the box of tissues" moments, if you like. But for the actor, disjointedly working in front of a camera to create those moments in isolation and still produce a sustainable performance is real art.

Williams: Your point is well made, Ralph. Let us now move on from the actors, and discuss a little about the Star Wars environment. You spoke quite candidly earlier about the difficulties of working on the carbon freezing scenes and also the attack sequence on Darth Vader's ship. If I could ask you to ... describe ... what the Hoth rebel base was like.

Morse: Rob, it was a gigantic set, and occupied most of the Star Wars stage at Elstree. At one end were the huge exit doors from Hoth and at the other end a number of tunnels that were used for rebel control posts and other snow scenes. One of the tunnels opened directly onto the main stage, (as you can clearly see in some of the filmed sequences), where there was a full-sized Millennium Falcon. Down one side there were a number of fighters and to add even further to the sense of size and depth, some were also painted in perspective on the wall of the studio. On the opposite side there were smaller sets, where for example I remember spending some time watching a number of puppeteers working an animatronic tauntaun, which was quite engaging. The whole area was covered by what I assume was white rock salt. It had a unique atmosphere ... and smell; it was rather like Santa's grotto, but where the Star Wars toys were real!

Williams: ... And you, of course, were one of those toys. What was it like as a rebel soldier filming the final Hoth base sequence?

Morse: The final sequence involved quite a lot of running about. I remember there were a handful of us running towards the far doors and the crew were dropping lumps of polystyrene on us. We were instructed to keep running, but when a particularly large bit just missed me, I decided that if something actually did hit me I'd fall over. Last thing the audience expects to see is someone hit on the head by a large lump of debris and not react accordingly.

Williams: So did you get hit and fall over?

Morse: No... and after that shot was edited for the final film ... it's all over quite quickly.

Williams: Thank you. You were involved in a lot of filming; can you look at the Empire Strikes Back and tell which actor is you?

Even in a crowd picture, Ralph was still able to identify himself!

Morse: As a rebel, to be honest it is quite hard; I can pretty much remember which sequences I am involved in but picking myself out of the background in any given shot is not an exact science. Nonetheless there are several partial foreground sequences that I am confident with. A little after five minutes into the movie C3PO makes an entrance from the tunnel; I'm in that shot and later there is an exchange between Han Solo and a desk officer. I am one of the officers that pass by when there is a line about coming in through the South entrance.

Williams: Yes, and you are clearly visible as the Comms Officer on Darth Vader's Command ship. But, as a stormtrooper? How hard is that?

Is this a carbon copy of Ralph?I

Morse: In many cases it is comparatively easy, and in others it really is complicated. Firstly we were moved around quite a bit. In other words I might be in one place for an establishing shot, but moved somewhere entirely different for the reaction shot that follows immediately after it. Let me give you an example. In one of the carbon chamber shots there is a stormtrooper standing to the left of Darth Vader. That stormtrooper is Alan Flyng. Later in the sequence, Alan is one of the stormtroopers placing Han Solo into the carbon freezer while I am the one standing to the left of Darth Vader. Where there is an extended shot or a specific business often there is no doubt. For example the often debated "Bring my Shuttle" shot, where I am again to Darth Vader's left...

Williams: ... Sorry, Ralph ... I am conscious we are rapidly running out of time and I did want to ask you at least one question about the other Star Wars film before we finish. How was it you assaulted an innocent droid in Return of the Jedi?

"For some reason the new costumes seem to make us look slimmer!"

Morse: (Laugh) Well it was another stormtrooper helmet moment. Anyway it was hardly a droid, more of a moving box. Periodically they would include electronic machines to add another sense of movement in a shot. Needless to say I was running down a corridor, didn't see the thing until I kicked it and fell over it!

Williams: Was it ruined?

Morse: No, but I very nearly was.

Williams: Well, time is against us and it is a fitting place to end. Thank you, Ralph

Morse: Rob, it was a pleasure.

- - -

Williams: I'm quite sure that Ralph has a few more anecdotes yet to tell ....

NOTES : THE RETURN OF THE JEDI

Following the most recent interview with Rob Williams, Ralph has received several enquiries about his roles in TROJ. As far as he is aware Ralph only appears as an imperial stormtrooper. Unlike TESB in which he was involved intently over several months, TROJ was more sporadic. Ralph recollects four distinct sequences.

1) The arrival of Darth Vader